ComplaintsforIndependent Technology Service Inc.

• Initial Complaint

  09/20/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Unresolved

  More info

  In August 2021, I bought a spindle from ************ with ITSCNC for my ************** machine. After 11 eleven months, it failed and I removed the spindle and sent it back to ITSCNC. They said the lower bearings were contaminated and I should have had an air seal installed to prevent this. At this point, I had never heard of an air seal nor did my last spindle require one to operate. They completely voided my warranty and I had it sent back to me. Upon further investigation, ********* machines did not come with this air seal. This is an aftermarket retrofit kit, but their website states, "ITS offers a reman, ***************** Spindle suitable for any****** Machine that uses Grease Pack type Spindles" (ITSCNC.com). I was not told verbally or through instructions to add the air seal. In email, ************ states that his instructions should be updated to include this information, yet I am still here with a machine that doesn't run. After getting the spindle back, we took the cover off to investigate it ourselves. The inside of the spindle casting was heavily rusted to the point that one side was pitted. The spindle casting is mounted in the CNC machine in an upright position. The pattern of rust would suggest that it was laying on its side for a long time and it didn't happen while in my machine. They also state in their instructions that they use a bearing manufacturer named ***. They are known for being a precision bearing manufacturer *********** When we looked up the serial number from the bearing sent to us by ITSCNC, we found out that our bearings are not *** bearings. At this moment, we are out over $30,000 with our machine being down since July. Dan has not shown an ounce of professionalism in this transaction. He has not adhered to his warranty and he also gotten nasty through email, calling me names such as ****************** and telling me ***************** It all can be provided in newer emails than the ones provided. Thank you for your time.

  Business response

  11/01/2022

  Business Response /* (1000, 7, 2022/09/29) */ ************ **************** purchased a remanufactured spindle from ITS on 8/18/21, and on 8/8/22 he called to report a spindle failure. We immediately wanted to be as accommodating as possible, so we offered to send him a replacement that very same day. The way our warranty exchange policy works is we send a replacement, he sends his back for evaluation, and if failure was due to operator error, then $1200-$1500 would be owed for the repair. He would not have had to pay the entire amount for the replacement. He declined our offer and instead wanted to send his in for a warranty evaluation, which takes time. **** claims he lost $30,000 from down time, but his actions speak otherwise because he could have been up and running the very next day, so clearly there was no rush. **** claims that his warranty was completely voided, but he was only being charged for a repair; he was not being told to forfeit all of his money and purchase a new $2850-$4,000 spindle (depending on who he would have bought a replacement from). When we received his spindle, it was not in an acceptable condition: The housing was damaged due to poor packaging, the top ring was missing, and it was contaminated with rusty water. Upon further evaluation, we discovered the bearings were ruined as a result of no air hookup, or contaminated air from the rusty water if it was hooked up. The spindle has what is called a labyrinth seal, or air curtain; it's not an actual physical seal. If you do not have one, the spindle will eventually fail. It's also worth mentioning that the customer purchased a new ******* pump a few days after he received his spindle. The pump shipped *** next day air, so we can only assume it must have been urgent since it was being replaced after he received his spindle. This is an observation, and not an accusation. However, if you run a spindle with a bad ******* pump, it will get very hot, and it can contribute to failure in more ways than one. Remanufactured spindles come from cores (bad spindles that are rebuilt) like the one **** received a $250 credit for; they are not brand new. All of our new spindles come with *** bearings, but the remanufactured ones do not always have them. He claims that one side of the spindle was rusted badly due to it being laid on its side for so long in inventory, but in order for something to rust there must be moisture so this claim is invalid because moisture cannot get in. Additionally, we sell many spindles, so they are never on the shelf long. He says that ***** spindles never had air seals, but the spindle cores come from customers all around the country; it is not one brand or design, but they are based off of *****'s original designs as they had many of them. We have our competitors cores sent in by customers, rebuilt, and then sold. **** bought a spindle from our competitors, but our cores come from all of them! ITSCNC has been in business for 42 years and in that time, have never had any complaints. The pictures attached will prove there was water damage, rusted bearings, a missing top ring, and damage to the housing due to shipping. Consumer Response /* (3000, 9, 2022/10/15) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) I would like to thank the*********************** for creating another line of communication to help resolve this situation. We are addressing all of ***** responses with hopes to clear up his fabrications. "************ from *********** purchased a remanufactured spindle from ITS on 8/18/21, and on 8/8/22 he called to report a spindle failure. We immediately wanted to be as accommodating as possible, so we offered to send him a replacement that very same day." ************ verbally offered a replacement spindle which I accepted, but he never sent one. "The way our warranty exchange policy works is we send a replacement, he sends his back for evaluation, and if failure was due to operator error, then $1200-$1500 would be owed for the repair. He would not have had to pay the entire amount for the replacement. He declined our offer and instead wanted to send his in for a warranty evaluation, which takes time." *** never gave me any options. The only email I received explaining how much the cost would be is attached saying that he was voiding my warranty and it would cost $2600.00 to rebuild or replace. At that time, I would have accepted the offer of the $1200-$1500 for a rebuilt spindle. Please provide proof of the declined offer. "**** claims he lost $30,000 from down time, but his actions speak otherwise because he could have been up and running the very next day, so clearly there was no rush. **** claims that his warranty was completely voided, but he was only being charged for a repair; he was not being told to forfeit all of his money and purchase a new $2850-$4,000 spindle (depending on who he would have bought a replacement from)." The attached email states that he is voiding the warranty and it would cost over $1000 more than what he is claiming. "When we received his spindle, it was not in an acceptable condition: The housing was damaged due to poor packaging, the top ring was missing, and it was contaminated with rusty water. Upon further evaluation, we discovered the bearings were ruined as a result of no air hookup, or contaminated air from the rusty water if it was hooked up. The spindle has what is called a labyrinth seal, or air curtain; it's not an actual physical seal. If you do not have one, the spindle will eventually fail. It's also worth mentioning that the customer purchased a new ******* pump a few days after he received his spindle. The pump shipped *** next day air, so we can only assume it must have been urgent since it was being replaced after he received his spindle. This is an observation, and not an accusation. However, if you run a spindle with a bad ******* pump, it will get very hot, and it can contribute to failure in more ways than one." *** claims that the spindle was damaged in shipping. I asked him to provide pictures of the box so I could send them to my shipping company, and he never sent them to me. These accusations are ***'s attempt to pull away from the fact that he is not upholding his company's warranty and quality control. *** continues to bring up the fact that the top ring was missing. If it was that big of a deal, I could have sent it to him next day. When I received the spindle, I asked them if there was anything I needed to upgrade. They told me to check the ******* pump. When I checked my old ******* pump, it still had the correct pressure, but since it was older, I decided to order a new one. I also have two witnesses who can attest to the fact that I did not run the new spindle until the new ******* pump arrived and was installed. Of course, it was next day air because we wanted to get back up and running the safe and right way. In all the emails, *** talks about contamination of the bearings from coolant. He never talks about rusty water, and he didn't even know about the rust on the inside of the housing until I got the spindle back and had it taken apart. I discovered the pitted rust along one inside edge which would not happen while installed vertically in my machine with the spindle spinning in eleven months. Laws of gravity would not allow it. Even if this was contamination from coolant, the colors of the rust on my bearings don't match his descriptions on ITSCNC.com. "Remanufactured spindles come from cores (bad spindles that are rebuilt) like the one **** received a $250 credit for; they are not brand new. All of our new spindles come with *** bearings, but the remanufactured ones do not always have them. He claims that one side of the spindle was rusted badly due to it being laid on its side for so long in inventory, but in order for something to rust there must be moisture so this claim is invalid because moisture cannot get in. Additionally, we sell many spindles, so they are never on the shelf long. He says that ***** spindles never had air seals, but the spindle cores come from customers all around the country; it is not one brand or design, but they are based off of *****'s original designs as they had many of them. We have our competitors cores sent in by customers, rebuilt, and then sold. **** bought a spindle from our competitors, but our cores come from all of them! ITSCNC has been in business for 42 years and in that time, have never had any complaints. The pictures attached will prove there was water damage, rusted bearings, a missing top ring, and damage to the housing due to shipping." *** states that his new spindles come with *** bearings, and his remanufactured spindles don't, but at the time of my purchase this was not stated on his website and it is false advertisement. *** states that moisture cannot get into the spindle to cause rust, yet he says the coolant from the outside got in to damage my bearings. These two ideas contradict themselves. Also, on his website it states that the spindles are not 100 percent sealed due to that fact that they would create too much heat if they were. This brings me to the air seal kit. My machine did not come with an air seal kit. I had never heard of one until I called *** to tell him my spindle was giving me problems. The air seal kit on ITSCNC.com is called a "VALVE, SPINDLE AIR SEAL, RETROFIT KIT." The definition of retro fit is, "add (a component or accessory) to something that did not have it when manufactured." How would I have known that I needed to add a retrofit kit when his website states his spindles work in all ***** machines with a grease pack style spindle? After learning the true causes for the damaged spindle and seeing the misleading information and false advertisement, we would no longer accept anything other than a new spindle at no charge. *** still has not addressed the fact that the inside of the spindle is heavily rusted along one inside edge. It makes no sense that it could have happened while installed in the vertical position. As a business owner, I have tried to address this matter in the most professional way possible. The way *** speaks to me as a customer showed me, we could not resolve this between businesses and that is why I decided to take this to the ***. If we cannot resolve this here, we will be forced to take this to court. The button to include attachments is not working. Is there an email where we could send them?

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