ComplaintsforFox & Fox Frame Service Inc.

• Initial Complaint

  04/18/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  03/17/2023 my grandson took his **** Dodge Ram to Fox & Fox Frame Service stating that he thinks the pcm wiring needed to be replaced (per the person he recently bought the truck from), he also indicated that the vehicle sputtered. ********* charged $350 to diagnose the problem and determined the am & crank sensor needed replaced. They ordered the parts and had the vehicle ready on 03/28/23, final bill being $1,303.79. The vehicle still didnt run correctly had basically the same problem, and my grandson called ********* back and they rechecked their work and found nothing wrong on their end from their previous work. They charged another $85 for more testing, quoted another $542 to correct the problem, at that point I said no. I even asked them why they didnt discover this other problem when they did the first diagnosed. They stated sometimes these things are hidden. I called **** a mechanic who has done work for me in the past he checked the vehicle and did a tune up. **** said the spark boots is included with new spark plugs and they wanted to charge me an additional $130.96. Back to the original bill he believes they grossly overcharged me. **** was so upset he called ********* and said he felt as though they overcharged me, and they didnt correct the problem to begin with. The original problem was it probably just needed a tune up. **** asked them to reimburse me for the work they did, and they refused stating they did nothing wrong. **** encouraged me and I believe him that I needed to contact the BBB because they simply overcharged and didnt correct the original problem. At one time he thought they were a reputable business but what he saw on the $1,300 bill and additional quotes he stated how shady they have become. ***** phone # is ************ and he said the BBB can call him. I respect ****, he has shown quality work, at an affordable price, and is truly honest with me. I hope you do reach out to him because he would know more than me (a grandma).

  

  Business response

  05/03/2023

  The vehicle a **** Dodge Ram **** was brought to our shop with a stated symptom of vehicle sputters no matter how fast you are going and further stated that the previous owner told him that the pcm wires needed to be replaced. There are many inputs and outputs to the pcm. We were not initially able to duplicate the complaint so we asked the owner to come down to the shop and go for a test drive with our tech to create  the symptom. After the test drive it appeared that there was a short or open condition somewhere in the wiring or control module. So we started with a diagnosis and tracing of the wires going to the pcm. This required opening the cladding covering the wires and visually inspecting each as well as testing electronically each circuit. We discovered that the circuit connectors on the cam and crank sensors were broken and melted and had been glued to the sensors by someone else previously. When these were bumped and ****** as might happen when driving, the vehicle would shut off. We recommended and estimated replacement of both sensors and the wiring pigtails includeing the connectors. Our customer agreed to the work and it was repaired. After the repairs the vehicle was test driven and no further symptoms were experienced. We felt that we had solved the primary problem that we were supposed to address. We did note on the invoice that this was a primary problem but that "we may need to go further but need to start here". Since the vehicle drove ok we stopped at the wiring repair.We finished on 3/28/2023.

  On April 12, the vehicle was returned with a complaint of "check engine" light on, seems to lack power when accelerating, and a ticking noise at ***** mph. We brought the vehicle in and diagnosed miss fires on number 4 and number 6 cylinders. We found that the coils on those cylinders were malfunctioning and that we should replace spark plugs and boots over plugs. With bad coils the plugs would be fouled and they should all be changed as a set. The boots were a matter of maintenance and should be changed with the plugs. We estimated the needed repairs, contacted our customer, and the repairs were declined.

  In review of the diagnosis and repair, I spoke with our shop supervisor, service writer that handled the job, and the technician that performed the repairs. I pulled all records pertaining to this vehicle. After this review I have concluded that we did everything that could reasonably be expected of us to insure that proper repairs were made. We properly diagnosed the problem. We followed industry standards for repair of the wiring and did not oversell or recommend un needed services or repairs. It is my understanding per a conversation between **** and my shop supervisor, that after our recommendations were performed the vehicle symptoms were corrected further showing that we went down the correct diagnostic path.

  I feel that no further action should be taken.

   

   

  Customer response

  05/08/2023

   I am rejecting this response because: Per their comment they discovered that the circuit connectors on the cam and crank sensors were broken, melted and been glued. Why did they not show us the old parts and the condition they were in? So basically, that is what they are saying put I see no prove of such. Also, the last comment of "between **** and my shop supervisor, that after our recommendations were performed the vehicle symptoms were corrected further showing that we went down the correct path" **** didn't confirm such. 
  
  
  

  

  Business response

  05/10/2023

  The parts would have been available upon request by our customer. Most don't care to see them so we don't automatically save them. The repair fixed the original complaint that the vehicle would randomly just quit running. The secondary complaint of rough running required the additional repairs that we recommended. Our shop supervisor had an extensive conversation with **** and discussed the whole repair process. **** was satisfied when they concluded. It was our supervisor's understanding that the additional repairs that **** performed that we recommended solved the secondary complaint. We did our job properly. There is no further action needed at this point.

  Customer response

  05/10/2023

   I am rejecting this response because: If I may have know about the parts being glued by the previous owner I may have asked for the parts, I was never told! Based upon Fox first statement why was I charged $350 for diagnosis service if pretty they much made their assumption based upon what the driver told them? Lastly, I know for a FACT Fox & *** is twisting their words in regards to **** and their conversation, as far as I am concerned they are trying to benefit their wrong doing by saying whatever and however.
  
  
  

• Initial Complaint

  10/03/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Call business asked" Do you work on **** their answer yes, mine has errors codes and is electrical, response, "no problem we handle those everyday"Setup day and time to drop off, they agreed to diagnose and call me with estimate and were not to exceed $150, I had to call them near end of business, their response, we need more time can we keep it overnight, "I was at least anticipating an idea or what is the plan?" We will let you know more tomorrow.Next day again i had to call, well we cleared several error codes but have 3 left, then a little later, may we have permission to start a pin point test to identify more on these 3 codes, yes but we cannot exceed $500 total, their response Ok agreed.Next day I called, may I have a status please? "we will call you back.Several hours later they called "its all fixed come and get it, your total due is $456.57.I go pay for and get vehicle, I dont make it 2 blocks away and while driving @ 35 mps it locks up and almost causes a pile up of cars.After getting help I get back to the business and discuss problem with front counter person, then the scheduler, then the mechanic comes out and show me the diagnostic device that still has all the codes and he shows me the last 3 still in ERROR. Well you need to take it to the dealer we DONT NOT HAVE THE ***** to deal with that issue!!!!I ask to speak to his boss and ************* the Owner after some time comes out I explain the issue and his response is" I need to dig into this and get all the facts"I cannot believe the poor business practices. Very simply I drive my vehicle to a long time shop and after spending a large amount of Money I cannot drive it away and have to have it towed at my expense, Wow.

  

  Business response

  12/01/2022

  ***************** brought his vehicle to ** with multiple electrical type issues after having a battery replaced elsewhere. We scanned and cleared all codes. We reprogrammed his battery as needed after battery replacement. We test drove and experienced no symptoms that he described but some of the error codes came back. We requested permission to begin to pinpoint test and did so. As we tested we cleaned multiple electrical connections and followed standard procedure for circuit testing. After this the vehicle was tested for over 5 miles with no symptoms but a final code returned. Code 5f2f is the code left that indicates an internal transmission Mechatronics failure. *** service departments have a special diagnostic tool for this system that is inserted in line to diagnose this particular system. we advised our customer that the vehicle should go to *** to test this system. He picked up his car and returned shortly after with the lock up problem occurring again. At that point we offered to tow the vehicle to *** for him. He declined any further involvement with us.

  After further conversation and complaints by our customer we agreed and did refund half the amount of the final bill total amounting to $228.39. I feel that we have done all that we can to satisfy our customer and no further refund is warranted.

  Customer response

  12/06/2022

   I am rejecting this response because:
  
  Before I took this vehicle to a diagnostic test I asked very specifically Do you service this type of advanced *** issue, response "Yes everyday."   The vehicle was kept 3 days I was called and told "ALL FIXED" Was not able to drive more than 1 block where the vehicle lunged into park at 35 miles per hour.  NOT only was a diagnostic done that caused HUGE major issues the list of what was broken in the shop, includes but is not limited to.  NO RADIO, NO HEAT, NO HEATED SEATS.  IT DOES NOT DRIVE AND BARELY STAYS RUNNING.  

  It is my responsibility as a consumer to MAKE the BBB and any and ALL else I can of the poor work done on my vehicle.  The Public is entitled to this information.

  I would be embarrassed to keep a vehicle for a test that resulted in the OWN admission we cannot help take it to the Dealer!  wow.

   

  Phil

   

  

  Business response

  12/08/2022

  ****************** accepted the refund in compensation for his complaint. No further compensation will be offered.

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩