ComplaintsforT & T Plumbing, Heating, Air Conditioning & Geothermal

• Initial Complaint

  03/21/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I wanted a locally produced Geothermal unit from ***** Furnace and contacted them and ***** was suggested. I had ***************** out and we sat at my kitchen table and went over what I was looking for. I wanted Geothermal unit to replace my Ceiling heat and window units for AC in the summer. I then showed him my plans to remodel my house with to additions. I also wanted the basement to have some HVAC as my youngest son lives in the basement. We then walked the house, all rooms were looked at and we also looked at the basement and determined where the Geothermal would be placed. ************* gave me multiple size options and I chose one and at the time asked for a Load List (was never given one). I chose an option that was $27k and paid 10k down. It took months for the equipment to come in. The equipment came in and they did the installation around Christmas and to say that it went awful was an understatement. They guys never completed the duct work, never caulked any of the supply runs between the ceiling and attack and I was told it was done and they wanted the final payment. The kept saying that the Geo was installed correctly. I could not sleep at night because of improper installation that I had to look up on the *****Furnace website install instructions. It was so lout and vibrated I could not sleep. Last week I had a ***** tech out to look and he said that the size unit that I have is barely big enough to cover my house including the basement. When I showed the remodel I was planning on for Spring **** he said that system will not keep up. I have asked *** at least 5 times for his load requirements and I just got it last week and it isn't big enough for my current house including the basement. *** told me over and over that I was over sizing the equipment and when I see the actual load list and they he did not include my basement or addition included I am very disappointed. I contacted the BBB before I file a court case.

  Customer response

  03/22/2023

  Please see attached.

  

  Business response

  03/28/2023

  Tell uFirst off Im sorry that this has been a disappointing experience and thank you for taking the time to get the BBB to help both sides better understand what has happened so we can work together to move forward. 
  
  From what I can determine after reviewing all the information that I have.  It appears that we provided multiple proposals for you.  From the time stamps on our proposals it indicate that our sales person ***************** presented the following at your home on 9-9-22.  The first option offered was a top of the line seven series three ton that would matched your heating and cooling requirements the best but was the most expensive option ( to expensive? ).  Then added the midlevel second option was a five series two ton that is the one that you selected for us to install.  This happens to be a smaller and less expensive option offered ( might not work best with additions and will need supplemental heat? ). Then an economy third and fourth option was added that was a three series four ton and five ton that would have more capacity but wouldnt work well this the existing size of the home ( more for reference? ). The options had sizes that the equipment proposed ranged from ****** btus to ****** btus an pricing from $23K to 39K.With this many options there might have been confusion on what the final cost vs what the benefits was going to be.  Then on 9-12-23 an additional option two was given with a discount to deduct the supplemental heat and the deposit was made get the job going.
  
  Ninety-nine percent of the geos that we install in this area are installed with supplemental electric heat due to the cooling load is lower than the heating load.  If the unit is sized to big in heating it wont cool and dehumidify properly in the summer. We have offered you an option for adding the supplemental electric heat that was declined during the initial sale.  We feel that the this would add the additional heat that you need with-out compromising the unit abilities to heat if you dont want to continue to utilize your existing ceiling heat? 
  
  This is the first time that Im learning about the addition and or additions and typically we would not work off of conceptual images or drawings.  ***************** stated that there was talk about an addition being added at some point but nothing official. 
  
  I hope that I have conveyed what I think has got us to this point and please share your thoughts and edits.  We are committed to our customers and stand behind the work we do!
  
  Please reach out via the BBB or call me on my cell ************ or we can meet in person to come to a resolution to your concerns.
  
  Regards,
  ********************* why here...

  Customer response

  04/03/2023

   I am rejecting this response because:
  
  
  If you look at this proposal it never includes the detail on what size heat pump was specified. It says 2 - 5 ton. 
  

  I asked for the load calculations at lease 4 times before he gave it to me after everything was installed.  The price was not the factor. 

  Then in a later email from *** he said that he had added on a 14' x 14' room.   Nothing on my prints included anything 14" x 14" and that is not included in his load assessment. 
  

  ********** at my kitchen table with my prints and renderings on every meeting that we had.   Trust me,  It was very clear my intentions were to get something that would support the addition to my house.  Everyone that I talked to knew that I was adding on. 

  ************************************************************************

  For *** to say that he had no idea that I was adding on would be pretty hard to imagine. 

  I attached a picture of what my kitchen table looked like with my plans on it.  *** would have been setting at the chair at the bottom of the picture.  We also went out in the yard and looked at how the additional supply and returns would run. 

  ***********************
  

  

  Business response

  04/03/2023

  I understand your frustration with the situation there are a lot of options and if we were not clear on the proposal.  I do see that the model number was given on the proposal and attached to each emailed proposal included the consumer brochure.  Additionally all of the specs are available on the *****Furnace website.
  

  Im sorry that you didnt receive the load calculations in the timeframe you were looking for although I dont have anything the relates to enquiring about the load calculations prior to the installation.
  We would like to get this conversation solution focused to be able to move forward with something that you will be satisfied with.
  

  What can we do to satisfied you?
  

  Options might be;
  Add supplemental electric heat  $2,786.00?
  or
  Remove the existing unit and install a different size and you pay the difference in the cost? (Example option 1 was $39,310.00  option 2 $27,326.00 total $11,984.00)
  or
  Provide us with a full set of blueprints, specs and if you will be building performance or prescriptive plan.   With this information we can advise if the geo is the best way to heat and cool the addition or if you will need additional equipment.
  

  Please reach out via the BBB or call me on my cell ************ or we can meet in person to come to a resolution to your concerns.
  

  Regards,
  *************************

  
  

  Customer response

  04/14/2023

   I am rejecting this response because:
  
  

  I have given them my house measurements.  What I am wanting is the same model that I have with the correctly sized unit and I would like them to include the load list. 

   

  My issue with T & T is they dont put the work in to get the details right they just threw pricing at me with no load list even after I filed a complaint.  If they are not willing to actually tell me what unit I need then I need to do something else and not with them.   The devil is always in the details.  ********** in my house and looked at my plans and never took notes and took a shot from the hip on what sized unit my house including the addition would need.  He did not detail the sized unit that he was even specing.  It says 2, 3, 4 , or 5 ton unit. 

   

  Why are they not willing to do a load list based on my house including the addition that they have. 

  
  

  Customer response

  04/17/2023

  ************************************************************************

   

  This is now the 4^th time I have sent this link. 

   

  This is my house including the addition and the basement is the same size as the upstairs.  My addition will not includ a basement. 

   

  I went over in person with *** what parts of the house are added in.  If T and T has questions I can get them any measurements from the guy that put together the prints. 

   

  It was the  T and T service tech is the one that told me I had a unit that was too small if I ever add on with all of those windows. 

   

  Thanks ***********************

  

  Business response

  04/18/2023

  T&T is committed to getting you the information and resolution that you desire.  We feel that there is some confusion about how we get there.
  We need more than conceptual renderings to do the load calculations for your additions.  I can state that from the conceptual renderings we would recommend stand alone equipment.  More than likely ductless mini splits. But it is our job to educate and inform our customers and there might be other options that you want to consider.
  Provide ** with a full set of blueprints, specs; manufacture model number of the windows and doors, 2x4 or 2x6 walls, type of foundation, R-value for the floor, walls and attic, ventilation requirements, etc.  and if you will be building performance or prescriptive plan.  The other option is you can have it built and then we can plan a site visit to collect this information.  With this information we can advise if the geo is the best way to heat and cool the addition or if you will need additional equipment.
  
  
  As far as the same model that I have with the correctly sized unit you have a 5 series and Im assuming thats wat you are calling the model?    
  You currently have a 5 series 026 with no aux heat, the next size ** ** the 5 series is a 038 this would have more heating capacity but would be slightly oversized on the cooling for the existing home and may suffer in cooling with higher humidity. The bigger options ** the 5 series are the ******* and 072 and are all too big. 
  I still feel that the first option that you were presented option 1 $39,310. 7 series 036 almost double the heating and can modulate down for the cooling.
  We need the above information to provide you with a load calculation (load list?) for the existing home and the additions.
  Please reach out via the BBB or call me on my cell ************ or we can meet in person to come to a resolution to your concerns.
  
  
  If you are interested in working together to find a resolution it might be best to call me and then we can put the plan on the BBB if you want.  Just a thought that might be faster.
  
  Regards,
  *************************
  

   

  Customer response

  04/21/2023

   I am rejecting this response because:

   

  Construction will be **************** with spray in foam.

  Both additions will have a crawl space under them. 

  Windows are 7.6" x 5"  No windows above the master bedroom. 

  Sliding door is 7" long 6.5' tall. 
  

  I have send you the diagram 4 times now. 

   

  Thanks for doing a load list. 

   

  ***********************
  
  
  

  

  Business response

  04/28/2023

  Due to not having all the details we need, the best we can provide is the attached conceptual Hvac load calculation of the home with the additions.  We are assuming the following:Andersons 400 series windows and doors, 2x4 walls with 1/2 spray foam R-15, ceiling R-44, Craw/floor R-11, No Ventilation, and that you will be building following the performance plan.  Also, that the Sliding doors and windows dimensions are in feet () not inches ().
  

  Please reach out via the BBB or call me on my cell ************ or we can meet in person to come to a resolution to your concerns.
  
  If you are interested in working together to find a resolution it might be best to call me and then we can put the plan on the BBB if you want.  Just a thought that might be faster.
  
  Regards,
  *************************

  
  

  Customer response

  04/28/2023

   I am rejecting this response because:

   

  Correct both doors are 76" x 79"

  Everything else looks fine. 

  ***********************
  
  
  

  

  Business response

  05/03/2023

   

  Thank you for the clarification.

   

  *************************

  Customer response

  05/03/2023

   I am rejecting this response because they provided no information.  This is getting frustrating that they cannot provide me the information that I am asking for in a timely manor. 

   

  ***********************
  
  
  

  

  Business response

  05/05/2023

  I don't think this is going to be resolved over email.  We need to have a phone call or meet in person.  Please provide some dates and times after next week that work for a phone call or meeting?  

  Regards,
  *************************

  Customer response

  05/07/2023

   I am rejecting this response because:  I keep asking for a load calculation and T and T will not do one or acknowledge that the sales rep never did an actual load until after the system was installed.  I was very clear I wanted a system that would support the additional remodel.   It was discussed in length including how the duct work would run with the new addition when doing the walk through with the installation team was going through. 

  Are you going to a load list or not?

  FYI when you installed the supply runs you never strapped the runs to the ceiling even though it is code and you failed the inspection.  Your team said they would do it but never did.  They did strap the runs up if it was easy to get to. 

  I am available to stop in tomorrow around 4:30.  Can you have a load calculation done or not?

  From what I gather if we cannot get agreement then my entire complaint gets posed on the BBB site?

  And then it is up to me if I want to take legal action in small claims court?
  

  ***********************
  
  
  

  

  Business response

  05/09/2023

  The load was attached to the response below dated April 28 Let me know if I need to resend?

  In the response below dated May 5, 2023 please see that I'm available to meet the after the week of 5-8-23.  

  Please reach out via the BBB or call me on my cell ************ or we can meet in person to come to a resolution to your concerns.
  
  Regards,
  *************************

   

   

  From the Business on Friday, April 28, 2023
  Due to not having all the details we need, the best we can provide is the attached conceptual Hvac load calculation of the home with the additions.  We are assuming the following: Andersons 400 series windows and doors, 2x4 walls with 1/2 spray foam R-15, ceiling R-44, Craw/floor R-11, No Ventilation, and that you will be building following the performance plan.  Also, that the Sliding doors and windows dimensions are in feet () not inches ().
  Please reach out via the BBB or call me on my cell ************ or we can meet in person to come to a resolution to your concerns.
  
  If you are interested in working together to find a resolution it might be best to call me and then we can put the plan on the BBB if you want.  Just a thought that might be faster.
  
  Regards,
  *************************

  Attached Files/Documents
   BASEMENT9 ****** summary with additions (2).pdf

   

  
  From the Business on Friday, May 5, 2023
  I don't think this is going to be resolved over email.  We need to have a phone call or meet in person.  Please provide some dates and times after next week that work for a phone call or meeting?  
  Regards,
  *************************

   

  Please reach out via the BBB or call me on my cell ************ or we can meet in person to come to a resolution to your concerns.
  
  Regards,
  *************************

  Customer response

  05/10/2023

   I am rejecting this response because:You only included my current house size.  Every time I spoke with *** your sales rep  Indicated that I am adding on spring of 2025.  Please include your load list for that.  I keep asking for that and you keep avoiding that fact that my Geo is the wrong size.  I am asking for the correct sized unit.  I will drop off prints that I have sent you electronically and the measurements that I have given you.  I feel like I am getting the run around.  Can I deal with the other owner as he actually listed to me on Monday. 

  ******
  
  

  

  Business response

  05/17/2023

  I have availability after 3pm tomorrow 5-18-23, after 3pm Friday 5-19-23 or any time 8am to 5pm on Monday 5-22-23.  

  Do one of these times work for you to meet?  If not please provide me with your schedule?

  *************************

  Customer response

  05/17/2023

   I am rejecting this response because:

   

  I am leaving on a family Vacation and returning May 23 late in the day.  

  What is your availability May 24, or 25th. 

  Have you calculated a load list for not only my current house including the basement as well on my add on that I am starting to schedule for next summer?

  Thanks

  ***********************
  
  
  

  

  Business response

  05/18/2023

  I have availability from noon to 4pm on Wednesday the 24th or after 3pm on Thursday the 25th.

  The load calculation for the existing home with the basement and the two additions on crawlspaces was attached on the response dated April 28th.  I have attached it for you convenience to this response.     

  Regards,

  *************************

  Customer response

  05/23/2023

   I am rejecting this response because: T & T will not give me a load list that includes me remodel but wants to sell me larger equipment with out looking at what I actually need. 

   

  ***********************
  
  
  

• Initial Complaint

  12/09/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  On 11/23/2022 T&T plumbing & heating company of ******, ******* dispatched 2 gentlemen to our residence in ********, ****. Upon arrival the gentlemen requested for us to show what kind of plumbing issues we were having. We explained the issues of the bathroom facilities, including washer and sump pump backing up into shower. The gentlemen determined that there must be a blockage of some sort in our main drain line. They said they would need to auger first and then use a camera to determine blockage. We approved these two methods to be used. They attempted initial auger which yielded no relief to the blockage and then stated that camera was unable to be used any further due to water in pipes. Still fee was charged for camera. The 2 gentlemen said they couldn't locate the blockage and had no further help for us but to call someone else. They charged us all fees and no services assisted in fixing any problems, not to mention our basement that had now been exposed to raw sewage that would have to be properly cleaned and sanitized by myself. They should've been willing to auger through vent pipe on roof as suggested but refused. Also, neither of the gentlemen sent to our home were fully trained or certified yet through plumbing school as stated by one of the gentlemen. On 2 separate occasions we have contacted the office of T&T, Only to have the secretary state that service manager would contact us, which never happened and the 2nd time I was forwarded to a voice-mail. Since then we were able to be serviced on 12/8/2022 by another plumbing company which solved all our issues at half the cost of charges incurred through T&T. The company that serviced us well, said that there was no reason that T&T shouldn't have been able to remove the blockage unless they were poorly trained or simply lazy.I am requesting at least half refund from total bill charged. Thank you

  

  Business response

  12/12/2022

  ****** returned my call, and I submitted a credit memo to accounting for the amount that we agreed on.
  Best Regards,
  
  ***************************
  T&T Plumbing and Heating
  11913 E 450 S
  ********* 46763
  ************
  *************
  FOLLOW ** ON    

  Customer response

  12/13/2022

   Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.

  
  

  Thank you.

• Initial Complaint

  02/07/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  On 1/28/2022 T&T was here to install a new sink in my kitchen. After several botched attempts and fixes they installed the sink, faucet in backwards, they fixed before they left. Next morning I had no power to the dishwasher (they pulled out to install the sink) I had called the shop and the technician called me back, and he never turned back on the power at the circuit breaker. I swithched it back on and ran the dishwasher. Later on 1/29/2022 I went to unload it, but still dirty, tried to run again to only find out THEY NEVER TURNED THE WATER BACK ON either. Now my dishwasher will not run. I have called twice and talked with a manager named "Mich" and he was going to have a repair shop come and look at it. The next day he called back and said he could not get anyone here and he and one of his field technicians will come over at 9am 2/7/2022 and look at it. Well, they were a NO SHOW and NO CALL for this appointment. This is absolutley the worst business I have ever dealt with - I caution everyone to look elsewhere.

  

  Business response

  03/14/2022

  We were in contact with ***** and was scheduled out to have our Field supervisor come look at the dishwasher on February 8 2022. We came out and spoke with ***** and he said he would call the company that last worked on the unit and would get back with us on the findings. We have not heard back and tried to reach out earlier this week and left a message.
  Best regards,
  
  ***************************

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩