ComplaintsforPins & Needles

• Initial Complaint

  07/09/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I purchased a quilting machine form Pins and Needles for $12,804.64. The machine was delivered and never worked. After several attempts to contact Pins and Needles with no response, I contacted the manufacturer to ask for assistance. The manufacturer contacted Pins and Needles and in turn they finally returned my calls. the machine was determined defective and I was promised a new machine however I was given a demo floor model. I asked for a refund and was denied. I agreed to the demo on January 17, 2023 if the 1 year warranty would start over upon receipt. the replacement machine did not work and after several phone calls I was offered a new machine. the new machine does is malfunctioning. I was offered a lesser model as a trade which I declined. I have had 2 replacement for a total of 3 machines that have malfunctioned. I spoke with the owner of Pins and Needles July 7th 2023 and expressed I want to return the machine for a full refund and she has declined my request and stated that if she did refund, which she will not, she would have to charge a 30% restocking fee.

  Business response

  07/18/2023

  We have offered to apply every cent the customer has spent to another product.  The customer refuses.  Furthermore customer is demanding a cash refund when the transaction was financed.  Our agreement with the finance company prohibits us from refunding in this manner as the customer could keep the refund and never pay off the loan.  We believe one of two things are happening.  The customer has "buyers remorse because she finds the machine too difficult to use, or the customer is having financial difficulties and thus wants the "cash refund". to bail out of this transaction.   We have offered to take the machine back for a 30% restocking fee and the customer refuses.

  The following steps have been taken to help this customer:

  1 - During the initial installation of the machine the customers home, it had to be updated to get it to work correctly.  This was done and the machine worked perfectly while we were there.  within a short time afterward customer claimed machine was malfunctioning.  We sent out our trainer at no cost to customer (usually an hourly charge) and trainer got machine working without difficulty.  Once again within a short time after we left customer again claimed machine was malfunctioning. 

  2 -We had her original machine returned to the manufacturer who found nothing wrong with it.  In an effort to appease customer the machine was replaced with our floor model because we knew it was working perfectly.  Within a short period of time customer claimed this 2nd machine was doing the same thing as the original.  We replaced that machine with a brand new machine (#3).  After getting our floor model machine back it was put on the floor and has worked perfectly ever since.

  3 - Machine number 3 was delivered to customer and set up by our technician.  It worked perfectly.  Our technician stepped outside for a cigarette break and when he came back the customer had tried to set it up herself and the machine malfunctioned.  

  With 3 different machines now being checked and rechecked without finding of defects we believe this is operator error.  At no cost to the customer we have made numerous visits to her home by both technicians and trainers.  Customer has refused our offer of more training insisting she knows what she's doing. We believe the customer may have made a hasty choice of which machine to purchase and is now unhappy with it.  Once again we have offered 100% credit toward another machine or a 30% restocking fee to return it per our store policies.

  Jim B******

  President Pins & Needles Inc.

   

  Customer response

  07/21/2023

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ******** and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  
  ***** ***** - Reply: BBB Compliant ID ********
  
  Response to Pins and Needles
  
  Pins and Needles is making accusations about my financial stability and my motivation for seeking a return/Refund. This is unacceptable and accusatory.  Furthermore, I have never asked for a cash refund.
  
  At this time, the resolution I am seeking is a return of the machine and all accessories it came with for a full refund to my original payment method. I am no longer considering any trade as I do not want to do any further business with Pins and Needles.
  
  Please see my response below in the form of a timeline:
  
  April 7, 2023 – I attended a Quilt Expo and purchased a Baby Lock Gallant with Back Handles and Laser, an 8-foot frame, and equipped with Pro-stitcher Lite software for $12804.64.
  
  May 12, 2022 – Sam, Delivery person and Technician at Pins and Needles, delivered and set up the frame and machine having issues getting the machine to work after setup. Sam admittedly stated he was unfamiliar with the Pro-Stitcher Lite software as this was the first he had set up.  He called baby lock support and was instructed to update the machine and turn it on again. After the update, the machine turned on and Sam left.
  
  Pins and Needles stated the machine worked perfectly after the initial update:  There is no proof of the machine working or not working as No fabric was loaded, and the machine was Not tested. The machine was only successfully switched on without the error message after the suggested update was completed. It was not tested by Sam who stated he did not know much about the Pro-Stitcher Lite software. Sam then left without shutting the machine down and restarting it to ensure it worked before he left. I shut down the machine after Sam left and when I turned on the next day, May 13, 2023, the machine displayed error codes on the screen.
  
  Pins and needles stated it was a short time later I called: This is not true. I called the Pins and Needles the next morning, May 13, 2022, and left a message for Joanna, (my contact person from Pins and Needles) to call me. There was never a return call from her or anyone else. I called again within the week leaving messages and still no return call.
  
  On May 16th, 2023, my son reviewed the manual and searched YouTube videos and was able to get the machine to turn on with no errors.  The fabric was loaded according to the instruction manual, and the first test of the machine was then conducted. The machine kept making long jump stitches and locking up with error messages. Again, I left messages for Joanna at Pins and Needles with no response.
  
  Toward the end of May, I called and was able to reach Sam. We had a Facetime call where he suggested adjusted tension. Also, the needle screw had metal in lodged making it hard to change the needle. Adjusting the tension did nothing to correct the issues with the machine. The machine continued to malfunction, and I continued to call Pins and Needles with no return calls. 
  
  Pins and Needles stated a trainer was sent to my house at no charge and got the machine working. This is an outright lie. A trainer from Pins and Needles has never been to my home. Sam, the delivery person/technician is the only person to ever come to my home.
  
  End of May 2022 - My sister contacted a Baby lock Representative, Ashley L*******, and informed her of the issues since the purchase. Shortly thereafter, Joanna from Pins and Needles contacted me. I reminded Joanna of the in-store training which was promised to me at the time of purchase. She scheduled a training date for me for May 27, 2023.  Joanna then stated the issues of long stitches were probable user errors and would be discussed when I came in for Training. I informed Joanna I disagreed as I believe it was a mechanical issue that had nothing to do with training as I was following the manual's instructions.
  
  May 27, 2022. I attended Training at Pins and Needles at their Middleburg Heights location. The training consisted of how to load a quilt on the frame and how to do free motion. There was no instruction on the automation program and no explanation of what would cause long jump stitches.
  
  The machine continued to malfunction making long jump stitches, jamming, and displaying error messages, and seemed to lose its place.  I continued to call and leave messages for Joanna from June through December with no return calls
  
  Approximately, the third week of December, I contacted Baby Lock to ask for a new retail dealer to service my machine. I spoke with Mary *****; a Baby Lock customer service representative and she looked up my machine and saw that Pins and Needles had not done the proper paperwork to register my purchase as the salesperson stated they would at the time of my purchase. Mary took care of that step for me, and she tried to troubleshoot the machine. Mary stated it was most likely the encoders and she gave me the name of a different Baby Lock dealer. I called the other retailer who stated it would be best to continue to work with the dealer where the machine was purchased. I continued to try to reach Joanna with no return calls. Jan, the owner of Pins and Needles, stated Baby Lock contacted her and asked that I be contacted.  During that call, Jan was condescending and rude blaming the machine issues on training needs. Jan had Sam and Edda call me on a group call where I was treated rudely. Jan then scheduled Sam, the technician to come to my house on January 10, 2023, and In-Store Training for me was scheduled for January 11, 2023.
  
  January 10th, 2023 – Sam, the technician from Pins and Needles came to my house to go over the machine. I showed him several examples of quilts with long stitches and losing their place. After troubleshooting, testing, and a call to baby lock customer support, Sam, determined the machine needed a new main board and I was told it would have to be ordered. I was told I would be contacted once the new board came in.
  
  January 11, 2023 – I attended training and was shown automation basics. Additionally, Edda provided electronic and printed resources for the manufacturer's step-by-step directions. The machine is user-friendly and with the training and handouts, Edda and I concluded no further training was needed.
  
  January 13, 2023 – After thinking more about having the machine repaired, I called Sam and requested he ask Jan to provide a new machine instead of fixing the one I have since it has never worked since the purchase. Sam called me back and said Jan agreed to a replacement with a New machine and a delivery date was agreed upon.
  
  January 17, 2023 – Technician Sam arrived on January 17th and began setting up the replacement machine. Prior to the delivery, Jan had stated she would be replacing my machine with a new machine; however, it was obvious the machine was used. At my request, Sam called Jan and put his phone on speaker so I could ask about the used replacement.  Jan stated she thought the store demo would be better as they have used it in the store and figured it would work. I expressed my concern of paying full price for a demo however to resolve the issue; and since it didn’t have too many lifetime stitches, I agreed to accept the floor model as the replacement only if she provided a new one-year warranty.  Jan agreed, issued a new receipt dated January 17, 2023, sent the appropriate warranty also starting January 17, 2023, and registered the machine with Baby Lock. I received an email confirmation from Baby Lock.   
  
  The replacement machine had several of the same issues as the original and a more severe issue. The frame space had an intermittent issue where it would sometimes not set. The machine would often display several error messages.  I continued using the easy-to-follow step-by-step manufacturer instructions provided by Edda to ensure I was doing every step properly, however, this did nothing to correct the issues. In addition to losing its place, this machine did not quilt the design correctly.  Additionally, it made a loud squeaking noise while the carriage moved which the original machine did not make.
  
  April 15, 2023, I spoke with Edda, an employee, and trainer at Pins and Needles, during the quilting expo in Akron, Ohio. I showed her pictures of the quilts with the quilting design errors and told her of the other issues asking what she thought may be the cause. She suggested I contact Thomas in the service department of Pins and Needles. I called and left a message for Thomas describing the issues. 
  
  April 21, 2023 – Thomas did not return my call, rather he asked Edda to call me. I explained the issue to Etta, and she stated she would research it and call me back within a couple of days.  She was very friendly during that call. After Edda researched the issues, she called back and suggested I contact Baby Lock as she and the staff at Pins and Needles could not identify the issues causing misaligned designs to be quilted and the machine to lose its place.
  
  On May 10, 2023, I called Baby Lock to inquire as to what is causing the issues. Again, I spoke with Mary *****, and we did troubleshooting together remotely. Mary asked I send her pictures of the quilts with the pattern issue which I did. Mary replied the same day stating the machine had a problem/miscommunication with the X encoder; stating it be the encoder itself, the encoder cable, the encoder wheel not making constant contact with the back track of the frame or the pro-stitcher wheel not making constant contact with the blue track on the frame. I called and left a message for Jan the same day.
  
  Pins and Needles stated I requested a Cash Refund. This is not true.  On May 10, 2023, I called Jan at Pins and Needles and left a message stating I wanted to return the machine for a full refund. The machine had been purchased on a Pins and Needles Synchrony credit card with a special promotional rate. A refund would be credited to that credit card, and I have never asked for cash.
  
  May 11, 2023 – Jan returned my call and stated I could not return the machine. She offered to send Sam out to replace the encoders.
  
  May 12, 2023 – Sam came to my house to service the machine. He replaced all encoder wheels. Sam and I used the manufactures instructions given to me by Pins and Needles showing every step to ensure/verify the process was being followed correctly. The new encoders did not fix the machine and Sam did not know what to look at next. Sam then called Baby Lock support and provided detailed information on each step taken. He informed the Baby Lock support technician the steps from the manufacturer were followed accurately and completely. I am sure this can be verified at Baby Lock support.
  
  The machine is not difficult to use, and it was verified by Sam and the Baby Lock support technician it was being used and tested correctly. Sam was then instructed by the Baby Lock technician to send the machine to the manufacturer for service and further troubleshooting and repairs. Sam took the machine and stated he’d call when the machine came back from the manufacturer.
  
  May 13, 2023 – Sam Called to inform me the machine would be replaced with a new machine. He stated that the team at Pins and Needles convinced Baby Lock to support a full replacement. I was told the replacement machine would have to be ordered. I agreed only if the new machine was delivered in an unopened box so it could not be switched with a used machine again.
  
  June 6, 2023 – New machine was delivered and set up by Sam which took 7 hours. My back handlebars were missing, and Sam stated he would schedule a time to come back with them. Pins and Needles stated Sam stepped out for a cigarette and I had tried to set the machine up by myself.  Again, this is an outright lie.  Sam did go out for a smoke a few times and he had to run to the store for flash drives to complete the setup. I was working remotely at my desk and did not touch the machine in his absence. After Sam did troubleshooting and updates, and with the Pins and Needles printed instructions in hand, Sam watched me follow each step correctly. The machine appeared to work, and he suggested I continue testing on my own and finish the practice quilt as he had a mowing job he needed to go to, and he left. On the fourth row of the practice quilt, the machine displayed a message reading the design was outside of the frame space which it clearly was not. I immediately called Sam and he suggested I test it further which I have done. The machine began making a loud squeaking noise as well. I texted photos and videos of the machine to Sam for reference on the issues
  
  Sam returned a couple of days later to bring the handlebars that were forgotten at delivery. I loaded a practice quilt again with Pins and Needles instruction in hand verifying with Sam each step was followed exactly. The quilt did long stitches, witnessed by Sam. I expressed my desire for a return/refund as I have lost faith in Baby Lock. Sam called Jan on his phone placing it on speaker and I asked Jan to take back the machine for a full refund. Jan declined. She stated was going on vacation and for me to continue testing the Baby Lock and to research a Grace 16 long-arm machine for a possible trade. I told her I would research and get back to her.
  
  June 15, 2023 – Received a call from Sam asking if I had tested the machine further and I informed him I hadn’t due to work conflicts but would let him know when I did.
  
  June 21, 2023 – I contacted Sam, sent him pictures of the error message and long stitches in the quilt design, and sent a video of the machine's noise.
  
  In the meantime, I did research on the Grace 16 Jan offered as a trade. My research resulted in learning the Grace 16 would not be an equivalent trade and additionally it didn’t have a lot of good reviews and therefore I would not be interested in trading.
  
  July 7, 2023 – I called Jan, communicated the continued issues, and let her know I am not interested in trading for the Grace 16. I suggested I would be willing to upgrade, paying the difference for a significantly more expensive machine, (Juki J350).  Jan informed me Pins and Needles does not carry Juki.  I then asked to return the machine for a full refund since I have had 3 machines and all 3 have not worked. The form of a refund was never discussed by me or Jan. I assumed a refund would be in the form of a credit to my original payment method since that is standard practice with credit card purchases. She refuses and states that if she did decide to refund, I would have to pay a 30% restocking fee. A restocking fee is unreasonable considering I am not requesting a refund because I changed my mind, I am requesting a refund because I have not had satisfactory results with my purchase and therefore a restocking fee is ludicrous.
  
  Again, this matter can be easily resolved with the return of the machine and all accessories it came with for a full refund to the original payment method. I am no longer considering any trade as I do not want to do any further business with Pins and needles.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Regards,
  
  ***** *****
  
  
  
  
   

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