ComplaintsforBlue Water Design Build LLC

• Initial Complaint

  03/05/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Blue Water Design Build (BWDB) was hired to replace attic trusses with post and beam, raise 6 windows after doing so, and fix sagging subfloor. They agreed to do the work in April 2021, but did not start construction until June 2023. BACKGROUND: Blue Water blamed city permitting for delays, but several homes in my neighborhood sold and added ADUs/DADUs during that period so their excuses are implausible. Later, BWDB told me I could not get a framing inspection until exterior siding was installed. However, when I called the city to inquire they said I could call for the inspection and performed it within 48 hours. This was important so we could proceed to close up interior walls to retain heat and deter pests. BWDB was trying to increase the scope of their work to include exterior siding, but by this point due to delays, substantial cost overages, and apparent ineptitude we just wanted them to complete the 3 tasks they were hired for.ISSUES: When BWDB installed support scaffolding for installation of the new ridge beam, they drilled a significant hole into the metal roof that required complete panel replacement due to substantial water infiltration caused by this breach. We are concerned there may be further damage as I discovered at least 6 places where screws had been ground down (hidden?). We want to ensure that no other roof punctures occurred.BWSB shimmed the sagging subfloor at an extra cost of $620 but discarded the 32 sq ft sub-floor instead of reinstalling it. When contacted, they said they'd send someone out the next week but no one ever showed up. When reminded about the issue, they refused to rectify the situation.REMEDY: We would like a third party to perform a roof inspection and replace missing subfloor. Lastly, we'd like an itemized list of labor and materials for full transparency. Substantial framing materials (2x12s) were returned to supplier but we received no credit.

  Business response

  03/08/2024

  Please see attached document which outlines our ************** by point.

   

  Thank you

  **** Gronvold

  Customer response

  04/03/2024

  My response is that Blue Water Design Build has not resolved the issues.

   

  I noticed a lack of accountability by Blue Water owner **** Gronvold in his responses to prior consumer reviews and complaints on ****** and Yelp (some of which have been removed) so I am not surprised at his lack of integrity in my situation.  In early conversations I noticed he said things like what about me? and lets get back to me so perhaps hes someone who can admit no wrong.

   

  Our initial project GC had agreed to get us to the weathered-in stage and we would take it from there as DIYers.  Before the contract with Blue Water was signed I asked for clarification whether I was saying yes to every line item, and **** said no  - because the project was challenging to estimate until they actually started workso wed take it line by line. *********;seems to have no recollection of this  conversation, but I never would have signed without this caveat.

  
  
  

  BWDB was hired to remediate the 3 issues we couldnt accomplish ourselves as stated previously in our initial complaint. They were presumptuous to assume we wanted them to do finish work we had always planned to handle ourselves such as wall insulation, painting and trim work.  

  
  
  

  And we already had roofing and electrical contracts in place well before initial contact with BWDB.  Our electricians fixed the issue BWDB found and confirmed that we didnt need the electrical panel upgrades BWDB was recommending as a dire necessity due to tons of corrosion etc.  We appreciate that BWDB found an electrical issue and didnt cover it back up.  Our complaint is that they discarded 2-3 sections of subfloor and left us with 2 new tubes of construction adhesive but nothing to glue down.

  
  
  

  BWDBs crew drilled such a big hole in our 24 gauge roof that it could not be patched securely; the entire panel had to be replaced.  No subsequent  trades were using drills, saws, or grinding down screws so they could not have been responsible as **** inferred.  Since we repaired the obvious roof damage at no expense to BWDB, we didnt  think it was unreasonable to request inspection/confirmation that there are no further roof punctures.  Damage was not detected earlier since we were not yet living in the new space and arent in the habit of looking up at 2nd story ***** for signs of water issues since we had a new roof.

  
  
  

  Permits commonly expire and get renewed. Weve done exactly that in the past with no issues or delays - you just pay for the extension. Numerous types of permitted projects were completed in our neighborhood for growing families/new babies - not just ADUs - so Kirks excuse about ADUs getting priority over our project is irrelevant. I believe they had other priorities so kept pushing our project to the back of their schedule.  

  
  
  

  When our permit was finally approved, the project manager didnt let us know in a timely manner. In fact, materials were not delivered until 5 months after the permit was finally valid.  BWDBs project manager had disparaged the citys purported delays numerous times - even early on at our initial meeting so I think this a blame tactic they often use as an excuse for their schedling.  

  
  
  

  Per the city, after framing is complete is the time for the framing inspection -  NOT after siding.  **** is disconcertingly incorrect.  **** and the project manager both told me that I could not get the framing inspection until siding was complete. That made no sense to me, so I called the city and confirmed  that the framing inspection was indeed appropriate and scheduled it. Nothing nefarious on my part.

   

  When I asked, **** told me they only do remodels, but when I saw their BWDB van at a local hardware store it said remodeling and new construction right on it so I can only conclude I was lied to yet again.  Especially after seeing a newly built BW home in ******* online. Maybe he meant another one of the family businesses, but if so he was misleading. I wanted to hire an experienced remodeler, not a builder or property manager.

   

  The final insult was when **** et al showed up with 13 change orders totaling another  ~$90K!!  Thats a firm NO WAY!  BWDB prices are not competitive and our project was not assigned experienced carpenters for the most part, which led to massive cost overruns on this cost plus project.  (400+ hours for demo?!) Since it took 3 deliveries to get the correct rafters, and the cost overruns were extreme is why we requested a summary of labor and material costs to be sure everything was accurate.

   

  Attached  is a picture of a mock up they did where new rafters (in blue) would have blocked 4 windows and actually reduced the wall height on the perimeter of the space.  I suggested more compact rafters (4x6 instead of 2x12) which they agreed on and eventually installed.  Im not a design/build expert, so I didnt notice this issue on the project drawings, but design/build is their business so I believe if Blue Water had been more competent  we would have avoided delays and extra expenses for re-engineering. 

   

  Second picture is evidence of inexperienced and unsupervised ********* trying to remove a window header with the wrong tools and technique. A for effort, but F for functionality.
  
  

  Business response

  04/12/2024

  MESSAGE:
  
  
  
  My response is that Blue Water Design Build has not resolved the issues.
  
  I noticed a lack of accountability by Blue Water owner **** Gronvold in his responses to prior consumer reviews and complaints on ****** and Yelp (some of which have been removed) so I am not surprised at his lack of integrity in my situation.  In early conversations I noticed he said things like what about me? and lets get back to me so perhaps hes someone who can admit no wrong.
  1-BWDB: We respond to all reviews. ****** and Yelp are only capable of removing non credible reviews. Ms. ******** recall of conversations with **** are not accurate or reflective of his nature.
  
  Our initial project GC had agreed to get us to the weathered-in stage and we would take it from there as DIYers.  Before the contract with Blue Water was signed I asked for clarification whether I was saying yes to every line item, and **** said no  - because the project was challenging to estimate until they actually started workso wed take it  line by line. *********;seems to have no recollection of this  conversation, but I never would have signed without this caveat.
  2-BWDB: We are a Design/Build firm, we do not accept projects that are merely looking for partial work to be done. When **** and ***** initially met with ****************** they made it clear that we either do the entire project or nothing. We did explain that some line items may come in under and some over, it is difficult to accurately estimate a job that has been started by others.
  BWDB was hired to remediate the 3 issues we couldnt accomplish ourselves as stated previously in our initial complaint. They were presumptuous to assume we wanted them to do finish work we had always planned to handle ourselves such as wall insulation, painting and trim work.  
  3-BWDB: Please refer to your contract that outlined the scope of work. It is very clear that the scope of work was for the entire job and not just 3 issues.
  
  And we already had roofing and electrical contracts in place well before initial contact with BWDB.  Our electricians fixed the issue BWDB found and confirmed that we didnt need the electrical panel upgrades BWDB was recommending as a dire necessity due to tons of corrosion etc.  We appreciate that BWDB found an electrical issue and didnt cover it back up.  Our complaint is that they discarded 2-3 sections of subfloor and left us with 2 new tubes of construction adhesive but nothing to glue down.
  4-BWDB: We had discovered electrical code violations that were performed by Ms. ******** electrical contractor. We had more than one electrical contractor quote the project including the previous electrical contractor. It was recommended by all electrical contractors to update the electrical panel. BWDB did not reference any type of corrosion we merely submitted to ****************** the recommendations from the electrical contractors.
  Regarding the opened subfloor area:  The structural engineer directed us to open up this area to verify framing from the previous contractor, this is the area that we also found the electrical code violations. This was left open so it could be repaired. BWDB did not re install the sub floor because the electrical repairs had not been completed. ****************** decided to take over the project and released BWDB from further work. Therefore, the subfloor and the electrical repair fell back to her.
  
  
  
  BWDBs crew drilled such a big hole in our 24 gauge roof that it could not be patched securely; the entire panel had to be replaced.  No subsequent  trades were using drills, saws, or grinding down screws so they could not have been responsible as **** inferred. Since we repaired the obvious roof damage at no expense to BWDB, we didnt  think it was unreasonable to request inspection/confirmation that there are no further roof punctures. Damage was not detected earlier since we were not yet living in the new space and arent in the habit of looking up at 2nd story ***** for signs of water issues since we had a new roof.
  5-BWDB: The first we learned of this was in ****************** initially BBB submittal. If ****************** would have reached out to us prior to other trades working on the property there would have been clarity as to what could have happened and the timing. I would assume that the roofing company that replaced the panel would have inspected the rest of the roof at the same time as the repair.
  
  Permits commonly expire and get renewed. Weve done exactly that in the past with no issues or delays - you just pay for the extension. Numerous types of permitted projects were completed in our neighborhood for growing families/new babies - not just ADUs - so ***** excuse about ADUs getting priority over our project is irrelevant. I believe they had other priorities so kept pushing our project to the back of their schedule.  
  6-BWDB: The *************** would not renew Ms. ******** expired permit. They required a new full building permit with a full set of structural to be done. We worked with the city, the structural engineers to get Ms. ******** permit through the city. We have no control over how fast a permit is issued. There are STFI permits and full design review permits along with DADU permits, each has their own requirements and timelines. The *************** unfortunately takes the longest to process. Again, we have no say in how fast a permit gets issued.
  
  
  When our permit was finally approved, the project manager didnt let us know in a timely manner. In fact, materials were not delivered until 5 months after the permit was finally valid.  BWDBs project manager had disparaged the citys purported delays numerous times - even early on at our initial meeting so I think this a blame tactic they often use as an excuse for their schedling.  
  
  
  7-BWDB:When your permit was issued on 11/16/2022 the ** emailed ****************** on the same day informing her of the issuance. The ** also noted that she would be scheduling a walk through with the sider, ******* and **** all in attendance.Yes, there was a delay in starting the work as other jobs that were already in progress had us prioritize them in finishing so we would be able to shift crews to other projects including Ms. ********* **** and ***** (**) met with ***************** on 1/9/2023 and did a walk through before the project started. 
  BWDB sent her a very thorough follow up email, in which she sent no response.  In that correspondence we communicated rising costs and scope creep/ tried to find the line of where she wanted to stop and start the project.  At that point in time, she said nothing and was looking at adding additional scope of redoing the front porch and entryway to the home. With that email a budget was also attached for ****************** to review.
  Email sent on 1/10/2023 at 11:55 a.m. to **************************
  Hi *****,
  
  Thanks for taking the time to meet with **** and myself yesterday.  We just wanted to send you our notes/ follow ups.  Let us know if you have any questions.
  
  1-We are going to have all the vinyl siding pulled from the house and inspect the cedar underneath.  From there we can make a call based on how much is rot and needs to be replaced.  We will get quotes to feather in and patch as well as reside with all ****** and present you those options.
  2-With the beam that we are needing to add on the main floor, we will most likely need to take all the bedroom ceiling (lath and plaster) as well as the sheetrock on the hall closet side.  After that we will consult with ***** and replace sheetrock, as necessary.
  3-Once we get into it, we will need to check all exterior walls behind shear and confirm they are insulated.
  4-Two positives:
  Electrical- we will only need to rework what is in the way of the new beams we need to add, and then the electrical in wall heaters in the addition.  We will present updates as we open walls, and the opportunity presents itself.
  Plumbing- There is NO PLUMBING work needed!
  5-**** is estimating the project to be about 2 2.5 times the current budget.  I have attached your budget for reference.
  6-I have created a Houzz idea book for you.  You should have received an email notification.  If you have any issues accessing, please let me know.  As discussed, it is kind of like Pinterest, it is best to add notes calling out what you like about the image
  ***************************************************
  7-We are going to look at updating the front entry to the house
  Need to find the survey that was done previously
  See if we can have the stairs to home/entry be straight on to walkway, if possible
  
  Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.  Enjoy the rest of your day!
  
  
  *********************
  Project Manager
  Blue Water Design Build LLC
  ***************************************************
  
  ************* Mobile
  ************* Office
  ************* Fax
  
  
  Per the city,after framing is complete is the time for the framing inspection -  NOT after siding.  **** is disconcertingly incorrect.  **** and the project manager both told me that I could not get the framing inspection until siding was complete. That made no sense to me, so I called the city and confirmed  that the framing inspection was indeed appropriate and scheduled it. Nothing nefarious on my part.
  8-BWDB:****************** is confused about which inspection she thought she was referencing when calling the city. There is a framing hardware inspection that can be done prior to siding. Then there is a Full framing inspection that is required before any insulation or drywall can be installed. In this particular case the electrical rough in inspection must be completed and passed prior to the final framing inspection. In order for typical electrical contractors to start a project,such as this; the house needs to be deemed weather tight so that the electrical wire has not potential to get wet. That includes windows and siding and roof to be installed prior to electrical work being completed.
  
  When I asked, **** told me they only do remodels, but when I saw their BWDB van at a local hardware store it said remodeling and new construction right on it so I can only conclude I was lied to yet again.  Especially after seeing a newly built BW home in ******* online. Maybe he meant another one of the family businesses, but if so he was misleading. I wanted to hire an experienced remodeler, not a builder or property manager.
  9-BWDB:We are a home remodeling specialist, 98% of our business for over 15 years has been extensive re design and remodeling. Yes, we built 1 new construction home in *******. The project was brought to ** by a known builder that was in a situation of losing the project because of funding. We bought the ************* the builder to act as our superintendent so no manpower would be lost from BWDB. If ****************** reviewed our website, she would see that all of our homes featured are remodeled homes. Yes, our vans to also advertise new construction as well as remodeling its in our best interest as a business to not miss potential opportunities to work with all homeowners. However,remodeling is and will always be our specialty.
  
  The final insult was when **** et al showed up with 13 change orders totaling another  ~$90K!!  Thats a firm NO WAY!  BWDB prices are not competitive and our project was not assigned experienced carpenters for the most part, which led to massive cost overruns on this cost plus project.  (400+ hours for demo?!) Since it took 3 deliveries to get the correct rafters, and the cost overruns were extreme is why we requested a summary of labor and material costs to be sure everything was accurate.
  
  10-BWDB:Change orders are issued for our clients financial clarity of their project,they can choose to sign and approve or not sign. This is why they are created and submitted before work is done.
  We have an open book/contract and we have informed ****************** she could have scheduled a meeting to review all questions and billing at our office. ***************** has never made an appointment or requested additional information.Please refer to the email referenced in #7 where BWDB discussed rising costs associated with the scope of work and provided a budget. Change orders are unfortunately a part of any remodel. However, to address the demolition hours we only had 200 hours of demo that were billed to ******************* Also, there were only 2 deliveries of lumber to the home, one for initial framing lumber and one for rafters after the modifications were made in the mock up review with had with *******************
  
  Attached  is a picture of a mock up they did where new rafters (in blue) would have blocked 4 windows and actually reduced the wall height on the perimeter of the space.  I suggested more compact rafters (4x6 instead of 2x12) which they agreed on and eventually installed.  Im not a design/build expert, so I didnt notice this issue on the project drawings, but design/build is their business so I believe if Blue Water had been more competent  we would have avoided delays and extra expenses for re-engineering. 
   BWDB: The Structural engineer provides the plans as to how the structure should be built, it is our job to build what they have calculated for loads. If the builder does not follow the structural plan set the city will not pass the inspection. Thus, we did a mockup of what was directed for BWDB to build, realized it wasnt going to be optimal and adjusted only after the structural engineered approved and revised the plan set for the city.
   It was **** and our Lead ********* that recommended using the 4x6 during the meeting on site, as we realized that what was Engineered was not what ****************** was expecting the outcome to be, so we brainstormed solutions.It was later confirmed by the structural engineer that this would be a viable option. It is not uncommon to have field adjustments and structural adjustments made after a project has started.
  
  
  We would like to move past this as Im sure ****************** would as well. We are open to the BBB proposed mediation remedy.
  
  

  Customer response

  04/12/2024

   
  Complaint: 21389944
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  
  ************************************************

  Customer response

  04/30/2024

   Im certainly not going to pay for mediation. As I said, I considered my requests to be reasonable and **** at BlueWater refused.  He mis-remembered (or lied?) about deliveries, costs, permits, conversations and didnt take responsibility for damage to my roof and discarding sub-floor materials.

   

  Rafter materials were delivered 3 times, not twice. They also left building materials such as 100+ joist hangers that I must have paid for but they didnt use.  Ineptitude and lack of accounting which is why I wanted an itemized statement.

   

  His project manager let me know about permit in January when it was approved the prior November. I call that a delay.  I called, texted and met with them on site and at their office multiple times, so there was no need for an email reply to their January missive. 

   

  Due to Kirks lack of reasonable response,  I have now had the original roof company from 2020 come out and inspect the roof (roof damage had been addressed by my siding contractor, not a roofing contractor as **** inferred).

   

  My flooring subcontractor will repair the subfloor this week. As I said, BlueWater had an opportunity to fix what they did wrong.  I will proceed with Yelp and HomeAdvisor reviews since the BBB process was not helpful in this situation.  **** could have addressed my requests 

   

  Lessons learned: I will never use a general contractor or design/build firm again.

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩